Polygamy...child abuse? or religious freedom?

[pam]

Although we don't know (and never will know) the full story, it's now clear that literally hundreds of young women below the age of consent have been kept uneducated, isolated and forced to marry older men, joining multi-wife families.

These conditions have been abetted by every adult in the sect, obviously, who raised their girls to believe in the "rightness" of their faith.

Is this religious freedom? Or child abuse?

[Hope]

It's child abuse. It's using religion as a sheild for enslaving a group of people and making them conform to the will of the sect. It's a cult, not a religion. When there is no freedom of choice for even just one of the members of the group then it is a cult. Religion should always be a free choice.

[SoberGuy]

Ah, it's a cult because it's not one's approved religion. Or is it a cult because it's an extremist sect of this particular religion? Interesting, indeed.

Didn't people marry young? I mean, you know, a few hundred years ago. We could go back to Biblical times, though I'd have to do some searching and finding references.

For the sake of playing devil's advocate, when did things change? Why was it OK years ago to marry at 14, and today it's not?

[AngelEyes]

I am leaning more towards child abuse. I am so glad they got the children out of the situation. I seen some of the women had a choice to go back or to a womens shelter.. most choose to go back without their children.

[Hope]

Originally Posted by SoberGuy

Ah, it's a cult because it's not one's approved religion. Or is it a cult because it's an extremist sect of this particular religion? Interesting, indeed.

Didn't people marry young? I mean, you know, a few hundred years ago. We could go back to Biblical times, though I'd have to do some searching and finding references.

For the sake of playing devil's advocate, when did things change? Why was it OK years ago to marry at 14, and today it's not?

I believe that when you are brainwashed and not given the choice of whether to become part of it or not, that makes it a cult. When activities go on that are unlawful within the sect, that makes it a cult.

There is a legal age of consent in each state, if you are having sex with people under that age you are breaking the law. I would suppose that the law regarding age that one can marry would go along with the age of consent. Some of these girls were under that age.

[pam]

A quick search brought this:



However, my experiences with a couple of Christian churches as a child make this sound familiar.

[SoberGuy]

Originally Posted by Hope

I believe that when you are brainwashed and not given the choice of whether to become part of it or not, that makes it a cult. When activities go on that are unlawful within the sect, that makes it a cult.

There is a legal age of consent in each state, if you are having sex with people under that age you are breaking the law. I would suppose that the law regarding age that one can marry would go along with the age of consent. Some of these girls were under that age.

So at what point did things change? When did we go from marrying at 14 (if not younger) to having a legal age of consent?

[Nordik]

Originally Posted by pam

A quick search brought this:



However, my experiences with a couple of Christian churches as a child make this sound familiar.

Sorry.... that reminded me of this that I saw the other day.....

YouTube - Bill Maher on Religious Cults, The Pope Catholic Church

YouTube - Bill Maher on Religious Cults, The Pope Catholic Church

Just to lighten the thread a little..... I shall return with a proper post shortly

[Hope]

Originally Posted by SoberGuy

So at what point did things change? When did we go from marrying at 14 (if not younger) to having a legal age of consent?

I can't answer that, but in my lifetime I don't know anyone who married prior to the age of 18...I guess we could look it up on the internet.

[pam]

Throughout time, many young girls were married at/before puberty. It happens today in many nations around the world.

[DrLeftover]

Originally Posted by pam

Throughout time, many young girls were married at/before puberty. It happens today in many nations around the world.

So does Female Circumcision (AKA, Female Genital Mutilation) , and in many cases it is done to the young girls in the villages by the older women of the villages "for their own good" or because it is tradition, or they think Muhammad wants it that way, whatever.... that doesn't make it right.

[Hope]

Originally Posted by DrLeftover

So does Female Circumcision (AKA, Female Genital Mutilation) , and in many cases it is done to the young girls in the villages by the older women of the villages "for their own good" or because it is tradition, or they think Muhammad wants it that way, whatever.... that doesn't make it right.

Very much agreed.

[pam]

Absolutely! Another example of parentally performed child abuse, although I've never seen a Koran reference to this. Supposedly, it's to make a woman "clean." The reality is that it destroys her sex drive and keeps her "chaste," and devoted only to a husband.


Don't GET me STARTED!

[DrLeftover]

Too late.

But it comes under the general heading of Child Abuse as a Religious Freedom.

For more information, check out the Glossary listing at http://bruthadeep.com/f4/sexglossary.htm

And for those that don't know. It IS done in the US and the UK and other Western countries by predominately African and Muslim families, sometimes with No medical supervision. And it is NOT reported by the family physicians, many of whom are also either African or Muslim, as under Sharia Law, the girl is Property and Has No Rights.

Another question is why the Silence from the US Civil Rights Crowd on the issue?

[pam]

Why? Oh, I dunno....perhaps because we're all too paralyzed by POLITICAL CORRECTNESS? And because the people who perform this barbaric act squeal that it's their CULTURE and they have a RIGHT to it?

[Nordik]

The Koran does NOT say that female circumcision is correct..... I've read the book 3 times (and the bible 5) and have never seen a reference to it...... although it does say, rather like the bible, something like that you should "stay away" from unclean women.... a reference I take to mean that having sex with a woman while she is err at that time of the month isn't a "good idea"......

Anyway..... back to marrying kids......

With or without polygamy, it's wrong to marry someone before they themselves know what they want..... and children don't...... arranged marriages themselves are wrong IMHO and this is a form of it..... however......

When we lived in the middle east, we had an Indian bloke that came and cleaned our house..... he became such good friends with us that when we moved form Abu Dhabi to Bahrain, my father gave him a job at his office as "coffee boy" and hence he moved with us...... and spent half the day at the office and half the day at our house.....

He used to go home to India once a year to visit family and used to bring me back the most amazing gifts..... all of which I still have actually..... wooden carvings that were just brilliant..... anyway I digress.....

His family arranged for him to get married at the age of 44 to a girl from the next village who was..... 12....... and we were invited to the wedding...... needless to say we "couldn't that day".....

Was he himself wrong? Not really..... he was just following what his family and peers told him was correct.....

Is the tradition wrong? Very much so..... at least in our western eyes......

I have since met them..... they are a lovely couple..... she was 20 at the time..... and you could tell that they love each other very much..... he's so very gentle with her..... much like he was with my brother and I..... although I dare say he does more than just tickle her, but in our eyes this is wrong of course.....

In the western world..... the true love is not the case generally..... cults like this survive mainly because the sickos want something to believe in that lets them have sex with kids..... and semi-legally at that..... or at least very protected.....

Perhaps it's the same as the same as your American forefathers on the Mayflower though.... just a thought..... although not exactly a serious one.....

In the western world it is not looked upon as correct and this is instilled in most children at a relatively early age..... they look at the people around them and know that they have to be "OLD" to get married.....

Therefore it hurts them...... because they feel like they are the ones that are "bad" and they are the ones that are doing something wrong......

In short, I'd say it has to do with what you are used to..... whether or not it hurts you psychologically...... although personally, I still think that being 18 should be a prerequisite..... you should be able to make your own choices..... arranged marriages are wrong..... love should be the basis of a marriage always.....

/ramble off

[Nordik]

Originally Posted by DrLeftover

Too late.

But it comes under the general heading of Child Abuse as a Religious Freedom.

For more information, check out the Glossary listing at http://bruthadeep.com/f4/sexglossary.htm

And for those that don't know. It IS done in the US and the UK and other Western countries by predominately African and Muslim families, sometimes with No medical supervision. And it is NOT reported by the family physicians, many of whom are also either African or Muslim, as under Sharia Law, the girl is Property and Has No Rights.

Another question is why the Silence from the US Civil Rights Crowd on the issue?

It's VERY much a big topic for civil rights groups here.....

[DrLeftover]

Originally Posted by Nordik

It's VERY much a big topic for civil rights groups here.....

Here as in.... Here in the EA corner of the world ,or Over Yonder 'across the pond' as it were, or....

[DrLeftover]

Originally Posted by Nordik

The Koran does NOT say that female circumcision is correct..... I've read the book 3 times (and the bible 5) and have never seen a reference to it...... although it does say, rather like the bible, something like that you should "stay away" from unclean women.... a reference I take to mean that having sex with a woman while she is err at that time of the month isn't a "good idea"......

..... [much removed] .....


In short, I'd say it has to do with what you are used to..... whether or not it hurts you psychologically...... although personally, I still think that being 18 should be a prerequisite..... you should be able to make your own choices..... arranged marriages are wrong..... love should be the basis of a marriage always.....

/ramble off

And a very good ramble it was sir.

I fully agree on both of the relevant points. The Holy Quran does NOT mandate FGM.

And nobody should force anybody, especially a 'child', to marry anybody.

[Nordik]

Originally Posted by DrLeftover

And a very good ramble it was sir.

I fully agree on both of the relevant points. The Holy Quran does NOT mandate FGM.

And nobody should force anybody, especially a 'child', to marry anybody.

*Chuckles at the "much removed"*